As I read theFreshXpress and other blogs, one thing is clear as crystal: Women have changed, and men have not.
Not too long ago, a man could attract a woman with his ability to provide financially and perhaps had higher education than she possessed. Today’s young women want a man that earns a good living, but also one that is willing to accept a woman that works hard at a career, contributes significant monetary amounts to the home, and also participates in more family decisions rather than delegating them to the man. Women do not understand that we were not raised to “share” certain parts of the marriage. In fact, you could say that it defies our nature. Good, bad, or indifferent, most men envision themselves as providing security for the woman and the children, and today that translates to them wanting to make most of the family’s money.
Let me be clear; this is not a bad thing for all women. When the man is smart, strong, and financially successful, many women do not mind playing “second” fiddle so to speak, and letting him wear the “pants”. The idea that a woman be submissive to the man only sounds bad until you realize that SHE chooses the man to submit to. I understand that all this “21st century” behavior in women is the result of men that were not smart enough, strong enough, generous enough with the money they made, kind enough, or those that deserted their families (sometimes through death). Women have found themselves with the desire to make up for what they perceive as vulnerability – I get it, but I do not think they have fully evaluated the whole thing. I am not convinced that women are ready for us to catch up; because we won’t catch up as women do….we will catch up as MEN do.
On this site, there is an obvious bias in favor of the professional woman. It is said that she isn’t a lean, mean, cooking machine
because she is a hardworking person in a time-intensive, progressive career. Comments have been made that men should not date women who have no careers, as if there is something inherently wrong with the traditional match of a “non-career” woman and a “career” man. Some women on this blog want the marriage to become what they consider a true partnership – a situation where the traditional masculine roles involve them more (50-50). However, all I see are people who want to eat their cake and have it too. Why? It’s because men are not involved in ALL matters when using the traditional role-delegation model.
What if you met a man who will stay home with the children (even while bringing in some money) and you continue working long hours? It sounds good, but keep in mind that when children are drawn to their mother, it is in large part due to the fact that the mother is perceived over time as the nurturing parent. Are you ready to have a man who will literally encroach on your dreams about motherhood and help make decisions about the child’s dress, schools, toys, food, and everything else? What if he no longer delegated the details of the wedding or the household furniture to you and threw a fit as needed, instead of letting you have your way every time you disagree? What if you split ALL areas of the family 50-50 and participated in all of them? Ladies, please be honest here….I really want to know your answers.
Realize that the only thing in the family which a man cannot do is give birth; everything else can be done by a man (albeit in a manly way). Remember that you too can mow the lawn and fix the broken toilet. Your unwillingness to do 50% of certain home activities because of the man/woman’s presence is likely based on your perception of masculine and feminine roles. I have found that some women do not want their “mother” (feminine) roles encroached upon by men, so I sincerely request that women no longer attempt to encroach on our “father” (masculine) roles. The above is what a partnership would look like without the delegation of roles by gender; if that is what you ladies want, speak now or forever hold your peace!
What do you think?
Article by Idu Charles
Idu Charles is an educated person, but more than that, he is a thinker and an unrestrained dreamer. Occasionally he is able to unload his thoughts in articles, essays, and music that provide a unique, creative perspective on common phenomena ranging from music to business, economics, finance, and his own life. He writes to bring unusual opinions and perspectives to common topics.
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Interesting read, but let's be careful of gross generalizations. One point you made is that men haven't changed. That is untrue. Men used to willingly marry and provide for women. These days there's a huge amt of single moms who are left to fend for themselves and their children. I think there are men who can be like what you describe, but these days the family complex has shifted. Submission isn't a bad thing. But a woman has to be able to submit to a man who is worthy and trustworthy of a leadership position. Also, providing for a family isn't just financial and I think many men think they ought to be respected for that reason. I feel a man should also be able to provide a safe enviornment for his household,discipline his children, educate them, be there for them. Men shouldn't only think their purpose is financial. Lastly, there are many women who cook, would like to stay home, breastfeed & etc. However the husband has to also put in more work to make sure these things happen. Marriage is a partnership. It has nothing to do with division of powers. But all to do with respecting eachother, being present and making the best decisions for the children.
So well said Denise!!
yeah. women these days suck. i think im getting a mail order bride from thre eastern block.
Marriage is a joke, okay, stop talking about this shit. Relationships are now exclusively for delusional and insecure women and men looking for a free ride from them. All the cool people are single. Majority of women in relationships are knowingly getting cheated on, most men are only in the relationship because of a baby or convienent living situation. Marriage in this decade is for liars. Women who lie to themselves and men who lie to every damn body. If you are 100% real, honest and have any moral values whatsoever, you are not relationship material. And if you get ropped up into one, you can guarantee that you will be taken for granted, and unfortuantely women usually get the brunt of this because it is very clear that Marriage is a serious goal in life for most of them and they are willing to compromise every single moral value just to be in one. It's sad. So to me, the question article is kinda pointless, because Marriage isn't sacred anymore. It's nothing but a costume that lonely insecure people wear to look like they are on the up and up.
@illbaby Not an attack at you, but at your comment. "relationships are for insecure women". How'd you come to that conclusion as well as "marriage in this decade is for liars"? Without getting too personal, just b/c you may/may not have had a successful relationship how could you label everyone in it insecure?? Successful relationships and marriages do exist. There are people who take relationships/marriage as a joke….but why would you let what other people do affect your own decisions or happiness. I think it actually takes courage for someone to be vulnerable & marriage isnt something you jump in and out of just b/c it gets rough. Its a lifetime commitment.
The only issue I have with it is that most people who are in bad marriages have no business being married in the first place. However, I wouldnt let what other people do in their relationships affect my personal opinion……
*Personally it takes two strong & devoted people to make a marriage work. It's hard work and takes a lot of effort. If marriage was easy..everybody would be successful at it……..there's something to say about couples who defy the odds…..
Opinions can't attack people.
Not my experiences, others.
Yes, I am jaded due to other peoples absurd relationships.
Yes, most women I know in a relationship is knowingly getting cheated on, insecure is first adjective to come to mind as to why someone would put up with such, if you have a better one, please share it.
If you are married and cheating, you are living a lie.
This is out of my hands, I'm not letting it affect me, it just is. Society has created a monster. I truly believe you have to dumb it down tremendously to be in a relationship. Whether it's you fronting like you are cool with unattached sex in the beginning and getting the guy by default, or just letting them man disrespect you, either way, you got to do something retarded to and lose some kind of dignity to be in a relationship nowadays.
I see what most of these women have, and let me tell you, it ain't much to write home about. LOL!!
Correction= are knowingly, lmao at is knowingly. When are they gonna get a spell and grammar check on this mug. LOL!!
Damn, I made a bunch of Grammar mistakes on this one, my bad. LOL!! Hope you still see what i was saying.
bitter black chick? maybe. just a little? you may borrow and adjust my moniker anytime.
hahahahahhahahahahahahahahha!!!!! Why ya'll always think I'm taking my comments from MY personal experiences. FYI, you know who I am? I'm that girl that your girlfriend probably calls to talk shit about you just for her to stay. And that's why I say what I say. Not based on my relationship or marriage, but others. Other people have turned me off from the idea. Just because EVERYBODY I know in a Marriage and Relationship is getting cheated on, and they know it, and that's why they are insecure and living a lie. That's just my opinion based on observations of other people. Do you have male friends in a relationship? How many of them do you know have cheated? Do you have female friends? How many of them do you know sticking it out with a cheater? Bitter Black Chick? Too much like yours, I'm not a biter, Blunt Chick, yes. Who told you I was Black? LOL!!! Care to generalize?
I am Black tho, I’m just curious as to why I’ve never hear, Bitter White Chick, Bitter Mexican Chick, Bitter Mongolian Chick, should I go get Bitter copyrighted? Because I think Black Women are missing some serious checks if we have the patent on Bitter.
Now if I was White, I guess that would be considered sarcasm, but since I’m Black, that was just another bitter statement from a woman who had been drug through the mud by Black men and somehow this makes HER bad as opposed to the men who destroyed her soul to the point where she is no longer happy. Shouldn’t we feel sorry for women like this? I mean, if this is really how you feel. Even if someone is bitter, stating that they are bitter suggests that something was done to them, so again, why is the victim always looked at as bad. When all they probably did to earn that title was trust some liar and give them their heart and regret it afterwards. I bet if a man did that, he’s just learning from his mistakes, but if a woman acts cautious due to suspect men from her past, she’s bitter.
Do me a favor, try to come up with another way to insult heartbroken women, at least if the insult is unique I can respect it.
because my name is bitter black dude. and also because i said you could "adjust" it. so if you were white you could adjust it to bitter white chick or or bitter asian transexual even. whatever you know. only necessary part was bitter and thats because of how you sound
I honestly feel bad for you.
Stop focusing on men that don't value marriage/family if that is a priority of yours. A man who values the benefits of marriage/community will not be so adverse to marriage and it taking on a different form than what he observed growing up (assuming he had a mother and father in the same house and that his father was the predominant breadwinner).
Likewise a woman who has similar values will learn how to balance what she values when she has a good man.
The thing I'm always baffled by is folks can easily draw out the negatives that plague the black community and ignore the fact that current attitudes toward commitment/family/community tend to be the root cause. We can place blame, yet not accept responsibility/accountability.
@KIM exactly. You're an intellectual as well as myself lol. But here's an idea. I've always wondered why some blacks are averse to marriage. I think the way its portrayed helps increase the financial gap betw/ blacks and whites. Many whites who get married, combine incomes and move up the socioeconomic ladder. While I notice blacks remain in poverty by having babies with little or no income increasing their chances to remain in poverty. Marriage has its benefits and its amazing to me that people of color don't realize that with these blogs about stereotypes as "angry black women" or "playa black men" are terms and ideas used to continuously divide people of color and keep them in a lower economic class. I think its kind of a "mental" racism tactic…..(sorry i coined that term….forgive me)
Girl – you are preaching to the choir. Two critical issues I see: Blacks tend to be more religious than other groups (save those who responded to last week's non-religious dogma post), yet disobedient of the 'word,' (especially in regards to money and sex). Secondly, the primary issues that plague black folks are simply by-products of black sexuality/relationships. How can one talk about being adverse to marriage and then wonder why our STD / Pregnancy / Abortion / Networth statistics are less than optimal? A lot argue that education is the root factor for the break down…I say the break down is the lack of family/community. Success stories of fortune 500 black executives that started out in low to low-middle class, excelled academically b/c they had a strong familiy support system. This doesn't ALWAYS translate into a mother and father; however, I can almost gaurantee that the mother focused on getting the absentee father to be present…isn't focusing on the child's success in that moment.
It's like okay – if your marriage adverse, are you also sex adverse? Problably NOT.
@KIM there's a saying that goes –if you wanna hide something from a black person…put it in a book. Which to me explains partially the reason why there is such a disconnect. I think many blacks attend church, but have yet to read and interpret the bible with understanding…hence they will see how sex & marriage should be followed.
This may be another post for another time but I have to wonder "where are some of these people getting their information from?" why is it okay to choose to raise a baby with no income? (adoption is a great option) Its amazing to me what the lack of information does to the black community. I'd love to know where people are under the impression that marriage is such a bad thing.
Like I said above. marriage takes HARD WORK. I think those are two words the black community constantly runs from. If your marriage and relationships suck you are partly to blame. If success was easy…….everyone would be doing it…….on the other hand….if white people do it………shouldn't blacks be the least bit curious & do their own research?
Most men just don’t want to be married for real. And this is why things don’t work out. I’m not speaking of all of us. Marriage has changed, it’s not what it used to be, I feel like it’s a set-up for disappointment. If you are a woman and have ever stayed with a guy that has cheated on you more than once, (I would say one time, but chicks have a high tolerance for infidelity now), but yeah you are living a lie and you are the reason for my madness and negative opinion. this is what’s going on in relationships, everything is a menage trois, the man, you, and the interchangeable side chicks. I’m sorry, I can’t sign up for that bulshit. And if you listen to R&B, every song suggests that this bulshit is normal. Checking your man’s phone is like a hobby for most chicks now. Relationships are garbage for the most part. And Marriage almost never occurs and if it does, it’s because somebody settled for less. And I don’t see how settling for less can equate to happiness.
Hence why 1) I don't listen to R&B – if I were to take social/relationship queues from R&B, I'm 29 and should probably be a grandmother by now…cuz you know, I meet a man, drink champagne and have sex with him on the first night. 2) Why I assess very quickly where a man stands on marriage…not in relation to me per se, but whether he values it and sees it's importance to family structure 3) why I am open to all races of men who value marriage/family/fatherhood (cuz using your music analogy – the themes in country have a lot more songs about actual relationships vs. sex).
Also in terms of serving God…happiness isn't necessarily a part of the equation. Well being is, but understand happiness is cyclical and if you base a relationship off of it – yes it will fail. Faith and love, on the other hand endure.
you don't sound bitter, mayb a little jaded. but i think youre an insecure hypocrite, and that youre afraid of marriage/relationships
so you shun them cuz youre not immune to its "evils."
youre saying that your a critic of marriage/relationships because of the people around you and their relationships. all your commentary on here has been about "what she puttin up wit", "how insecure she is", and "people are lying to themselves"- but the question is: what does any other person's relationship have to do with you?? You think you're understand what you're talking about, but you don't. It's like somebody with no kids constantly people about how bad her friends' kids are- you dont know nothin about being a mother until you're a mother. and aparently you think you know the nature of people in relationships cuz you "seen and heard it with your own eyes." You THINK you know, but you clearly DON'T know, cuz you dont know enough to realize that other people relationships are NOT your business. Knowledgeble people dont try to make other peoples' drama THEIR drama.
Are you talkin about your friend's relationships? Cuz if you are, youre just as bad as their cheating boyfriends since you speak so badly about them. If you dont say these things to their faces, thats lying. And if you do say it to their faces, youre hurting them as badly as theyre already hurt by their S/O. i dont think they tell you their business cuz they think you gonna help them.
You may be just as bad as your friends if you feel so terribly about relationships, you dont think that even you are able to survive the evils of relationships, which means that if you were to be in one, you would be playing the role of the "insecure woman who is lying to herself."
Girl, you must be hurting real bad to think that you are no better than your friends, cuz you really dont believe that you can be an exception to the rule. Maybe you need to make new friends, cuz ALL youre friends can't have terrible relationships. If you think they're so dumb, get some new friends lol Misery loves company, boo, which side are you?
And lastly, society dont have NOTHIN to do with marriage, you're not marrying society, society doesnt decide what a "marriage" is. Neither do love songs. You shouldn't let your fear of being hurt like you're friends cripple you into having such a disdain and unbelief in an honest love. It does exist. In order for a relationship to be bad, the people in it must be bad. If you think you're good, then you should anticipate having wonderful relationships, provided you choose a partner who you believe to be of the same worth you are.
What's an insecure hypocrite? LOL!! I kinda like that even though it was meant to insult me.
Relationships are scary, they can destroy you.
I don't make other people's drama mine, I really don't have any drama in my life at this moment, most likely because I'm NOT in a relationship and I'm not desperately pursuing one. I love my girls, and I tell them the truth to their face. I don't try to hurt them, but the truth hurts sometimes. And I only do it when they become redundant with the drama they share with me, and yes, I tell them about themselves, and they still love me for it. I learn from other peoples mistakes. I'm not in anyone's business. I don't even call anybody, they call me. I listen, and I take notes.
I am jaded, and i think I have been given good reasons to be. I have a lot to lose, and I refuse to get in some garbage relationship just because I felt lonely on a Tuesday or something. I could be just trying men out freely and "Taking a chance on love" but I'm too old now, I can't be gambling with my heart and soul. I have to be sure, and it seems to me, that most people are not sure about their current love situation and they always have a good reason.
You went off on me, I don't know if it was because you are in a suspect relationship, or because you are one of the fortunate people who haven't experienced any type of loss or pain due to a bad pick.
I like this website, it's just an outlet for me to vent, you seem to take my little comment to heart, and I apologize if I unknowingly described you or something. I can see a woman who is sticking with a cheater getting highly offended at what I said. I may have been harsh by calling them liars and all of that, but that's how I feel.
And all of my friends ARE in garbage relationships, some admit it, some front, and if I was the nosey person you think I am, I would find new friends, but I'm one of the few people who is still in cool with people from Pre-School, so it's kinda hard to cut off fam because they are in love with a loser.
" If you think they’re so dumb, get some new friends lol Misery loves company, boo, which side are you?"
That right there? Yo, that came off maaaaaaad personal, and I apologize because I think you are like my friends, and I didn't mean to hurt anyone, I was just speaking my mind. I really do believe you are knowingly getting cheated on though.
cant imagine why you don't have any friends who are legitimately happy in their relationships.
And the sarcasm award goes too……………BITTER BLACK DUDE, come on up fam!!!!
The real thing to ponder is…………Why am I the one they call, when they already know I'm not going to tell them what they want to hear.
I feel like I did a good thing with this comment, all of this negativity towards it makes me feel like I hit the nail right on the head.
Now, I can see why women have a problem with my comments, but what's really good with you BBD, guys usually don't get affected by my bulshit because deep down they know I'm right. It's women that act like they don't know men for the most part are not interested in monogomy.
i was being sarcastic. a little. but i was also hoping you would indulge me. even i know people in happy relationships and by all accounts i am a curmudgeon.
and you are not right. i want to get married one day and am not looking for a free ride.
there you go again, deflecting yourself lol
i happen to be very happily single. not cuz i had a bad break up or cuz i'm bitter or whatever, i just know myself enough to recognize that i cant take on the responsibility of a relationship rite now. so no, i dont fit your description.
for the record, i've been cheated on once (he kissed another girl) and i broke up with him. We eventually got back together 4 mos later. we broke up a few months later cuz we left for college.
honestly, i think the chances of me getting cheated on are pretty slim; i do pretty well at picking good partners. my rule of thumb: never settle for less than I'm worth. also, i think i'm the shit- whatever relationship i'm in is automatically great just because i'm in it lol
anyways, i wasnt tryna insult you. i was tryna say my piece and you happend to be a good springboard.
i dont mean for this to offend you cuz i only know you by your commentary, but i feel sad for you, you seem to be really bitter. it is possible to find new friends and still keep your old ones, its not either or. i said that misery loves company cuz you and your friends seem to continuously wallow in the misery of perpetual heartbreak. miserable love isn't love at all. as people. we get what we give, if all the love you and your friends receive is that terrible, maybe you can change what youre giving to yourself and to other people.
When given the choice, very few women want to completely disassemble the traditional family structure. What we want is a renegotiation of some of the terms of traditional partnership. That will require women and men to do things that they never saw their parents do.
In the 21st century, there is no cookie cutter marriage. Each household gets to set their own rules. Partners take on the roles they want. That gives men and women freedom to be the spouse/parent they want to be instead of what others would have them be.
Furthermore, the assertion that women have changed and men remain the same seems to be a way for men to somehow blame the deterioration of the family on women. That is simply untrue. As Denise said, men and women have changed.
As a woman who was raised by a man, who took me shopping for clothes, because he wanted me to have more than black in my wardrobe, pressed AND curled my hair for school pictures, took me and my sister to the beauty shop when we were younger I'm leery of this generalization that women are not ready to relinquish their role as mothers and share the responsibility.
What you've seemingly done is flipped a prevailing gender role/stereotype and make the exception the rule.
Cute article though.
I've been married going on 8 years, I'm a black man that is 30 with 4 kids in the house( 1 out of the 4 I'm raising). Marriage is dedication, sacrifices & unconditional love. In relationships you need to remember no one is perfect. Responsibility was not split or passed on to someone else. Saying I do, does not divide. It adds the bills, kids, cooking, cleaning, housework, etc. All I hear about marriage is cheating and not compromising. Is it the generations have changed in the effort that is put out? Bottom line we as a whole are lazy as a generation… Look at how relationships have changed. Who did u have to look at as a role model the majority of people these last decades were raised by who. At what age? Examples of a successful marriage is not around anymore..
Thank you. It's true, it's just not the same anymore.
I call 'shenanigans'! Are you married? Have you ever been ? Because I am the so called 21st
Century woman with a string of lettters behind my name (and the salary to match) and 'Mrs.' in front. Your definition
of 'traditiuonal marital roles is insulting at best, but I call it chauvanistic. Who are you (or anyone else) to dictate how anyone else's marriage other
than your own should go? Last time I checked, children benefit from nurturing and involved fathers in additon to their mothers.
And while I can cook my ass off, sometimes its nice (and sexy) to see my husband cooking dinner, or emptying the dishwasher…
Don't discourage these fine educated women from thinking they are good potential mates, or encouraging men to pass them over.
I think marriage gets the short end of the stick b/c of the drama, cheating, etc that occurs so Black folks become extra skeptical of marriage. It would be interesting to see if other culture chear just as much and how tolerate these people are to their cheating mate. I think the stereotype is that white folks tolerate their cheating mate, etc. for whatever reason.
IMO, I do agree that men and women need to understand that marriages and traditional roles may change a bit. The one issue that I have noticed with women is that they want to preach “equal role” and working together but it is only as they see fit and to their advantage. So, they are quick to say “I shouldn’t have to cook all the time, etc” but yet, they are not raising their hand when it time to shovel snow, take trash out, etc. Trust I am not a man that expect my wife to play housewife. I am all for two-person income. Outside of cooking dinner, I have no problem with cleaning the bathroom, doing dishes (handwashing, no machine) and other female duties. At the same time, I know my expectation is to wash the car, kill bugs along with other things. Asking for a balance of traditional roles is not a problem but females have to willing to balance it out fully. If not, then keep it traditional and keep it quiet.
One of the great things about culture these days is that more and more people are willing to take on roles that are not traditional gender roles. As individuals evolve and have their own experiences, both men and women will find what responsibilities they are comfortable with. It’s a matter of finding someone who shares the same vision for home, someone who supports you and communicates with you enough to create an environment that flourishes.
Thanks for all your great discussion. I do want to clarify a few things. My article is NOT about men that do not want to get married. It is about the ones who do (arguably a smaller population today, sure). I have seen that these men prefer the traditional marriage roles. When I say men have not changed, I mean the ´marrying´ type. I am convinced that today´s marrying type doesn´t expect much different from his wife than the one of 20-40 years ago did; sure she is expected to work and earn, but she´ll also take charge of the home and children. Maybe folks can further comment on what they have seen, but it seems to me that today´s ´marrying type´ women want marriage redefined, but ´marrying-type´men don´t.
Further, marrying-type women have not demonstrated their willingness to relinquish complete control of household affairs, which women have always controlled. Unfortunately, none of you have written directly about my thought on this. Brittany came close, but the woman was not present in her case (implied, right?).
I am 100% willing and able to mow the lawn, fixt the broken toilet, and take out the trash, if the “marrying-type” male is willing to do the cooking, dishes, and laundry!
I’m all about an agreement to keeping the household on track. We BOTH live in the house. We BOTH work to make ends meet. Therefore, we BOTH should agree to a separation of functions…however that shakes out.
“…marrying-type women have not demonstrated their willingness to relinquish complete control of household affairs…” Damn that nonsense! Have at it!!
wow. it must be write a whole lot of bullshit week. PLEASE MR WRITER, since you are 'finding' all of these things that you mention in your article, especially near the end, PLEASE TELL US WHERE YOU FOUND THEM. jesus m. christ. ever heard of journalistic and literary responsibility?!? *rips hair out* *bangs head against key board*
Dear Queen,
All of my assertions are based on my own experiences and conversations with men and women. These experiences include the comments I have read on this site. While I am not a daily reader, for each article I read, I tend to follow the entire discussion to the end and have a sense of the different perspectives that exist. What I say about men who are the marrying type is based on my observations (pure and simple). What I did not say is what I ultimately think of it, and the truth is that I think it is sad that men have not "caught up". All the men I know who are in their 20's and married, are quite conservative, and outside of their desire for a dual-income household, a woman that does not do XYZ is unacceptable. (For my part, it's okay if a woman can't cook or clean, as long as she has no aversion to learning).
Finally, with regards to journalistic and literary responsibility I have this to say. My work on this site is always meant to engage readers like yourself more than anything else. My comments are only educational if in our discourse we achieve some higher level of assurance (than my own) that they are valid. Please note that I always frame my thoughts as a question.
I would appreciate it if you would participate and tell us what you yourself have "found", because with out it all I have are my own thoughts. With all due respect, I knew my thoughts before taking the time to write an article that is acceptable for this site – so your response helps no-one.
Sincerely,
Idu Charles.